HERALD: Welcome back to our debate on the 10th anniversary of HCN, Re-booting Goa - The Road Map to Make Goa Great Again. We are pleased to have the honourable MP from South Goa, Narendra Sawaikar. I'll start by getting into the whole issue of the regional plan. Sawaikar you have of course been a MP and been a part of many decision making processes, whenever the issue of the regional plan has been kind of discussed, there was a feeling that the regional plan was kept in the back burner because it was too hot a potato to touch. Even now after this government has taken over, there were contradictory voices as far as the regional plan is concerned. Of course the TCP Minister has a different vision about the regional plan. But the point is how longer can we go on without giving Goa a proper plan and control over its land use because people are taking advantage of this kind of a limbo and misusing it.

Narendra Sawaikar: As far as the regional plan is concerned, I feel this government's commitment and vision is very clear. When this government came to power in 2012, it began the process of people’s participation keeping in mind various issues that came to the fore. It has never been the intention of the government to keep it on the back burner. Therefore, the TCP Minister in the current government said that keeping in mind Goa’s interest let us put forth a regional plan which is beneficial and in the interest of all. And thus, I’m confident that not just today’s Goa, but even the future Goa will be reflected in the Regional Plan.

Rajendra Desai: The question from Sujay is straight, how long will we prolong the issue of Regional Plan.

Narendra Sawaikar: It is not about prolonging the issue. You can never take such decisions in a haste but instead keep all interests in mind and for a long-term use. So, the government’s intentions are not to keep it prolonging for years as you have to complete the issue, therefore, there has to be a time frame to complete it and we will do it.

Adv Cleofat Coutinho: A clear cut time frame has to be given, but will you say that there is complete failure in the last 5 years as nothing much has happened?

Narendra Sawaikar: No, it's not been a failure. 

Adv Cleofat Coutinho: But what about consuming a period of five years and nothing concrete... . Do you still say it was not a failure?

Narendra Sawaikar: No, it's not a fialure. As far as the RP is concerned, if you consider the situation prior to 2012, there are various issues when the regional plan came into force. Therefore, when you want to address those issues, you have to look at all the factors and take everyone into confidence while doing so. 

Girish Chodankar: May be you have a wrong understanding, the RP that you have been discussing is 2021 and today we are in 2017. Since 2011 you (the BJP) had said that you would put the RP 2021 in order. In 2012, the people voted you to power and for five years you didn’t find time to rectify RP 2021. Again now you are taking the people for a ride with the same agenda. Why do you lie to the people?

Herald: I'll just add to it, see the issue is that obviously there was a thinking and a strategy behind keeping it in the backburner. There was obviously a thought behind it.

Girish Chodankar: It was an ATM for them. It was ATM for the government.

Herald: See the other issue, political allegations aside. I am getting into two aspects to it, there has to be a logic behind keeping it back. What was the logic and has that logic worked? That needs to be explained to the people. People would like to know the reason. There was a strategy to hold it back for various reasons. That needs to be explained. Secondly, if we are coming up with a regional plan of 2021 in the year 2018, there is no point! You can no longer call it RP 2021, it’s absolutely irrelevant. Don’t you agree that one has to go completely back to the drawing board and look at the whole issue of it because the goal post has completely shifted, the topography has completely changed? There are so many clearances given during this period that needs to be looked at. So two aspects, one is a basic explanation or a thought behind why this was not done. There could be a proper reason, let’s hear it. Secondly, has that reason been rectified? Has that decision been validated? I mean were you successful in achieving what you wanted to achieve by keeping it on the back burner? And number three, what is the way forward? Let's look at it constructively also.

Girish Chodankar: At least we notified it, you did not even do that.

Narendra Sawaikar: When we had gone to the people in 2012, we had said that we will redo the RP keeping in mind the interest of the overall population of the state and therefore, as Sujay said there has been a reason to it. In the last five years,  whatever the government has done regarding RP, has been keeping the overall development of Goa. How the development projects should be and all things were considered. If we wanted to do it haphazardly, many permissions and other things could have been done in five years. But we don’t do it only for the reason that we want real development of Goa and in the last five years we have included all these aspects.

Ramesh Gawas: When we talk about five years, I mean THE PARTY that was in power. When you look at Goa’s topography and hydrology, 96 per cent of Goa’s total geographical area is catchment area of all the water bodies. The height of mountains is around 800 metres and the gradients are 29 degrees. We need to look at the demography and population of the coastal belt, plateau and hilly regions and look at how sensitive these regions are. I have not seen any planning for the future, say 50 years from now for our future generations. We cannot drag our feet over this "unplanned" state of affairs. For 3702 sq km of area with 105 km length from Pernem to Canacona and nearly 45 km from Arabian Sea to Western Ghats, one needs to be aware how sensitive the area is and for such an area, the plan has to be justifiable.

Adv Cleofat Coutinho: I think when the last regional plan was visualised, there was a task force and that team had given it in percentage terms, eco 1 and eco 2 areas. I would say those cco1 and eco 2 percentage areas as given by them are frozen and then we go forward and then the issues addressed by Ramesh Gawas could be taken care of.

Herald:What your saying is that freeze Eco1 and Eco 2. Let them be canned and don’t touch those areas.

Adv Cleofat Coutinho: Prashant Naik in the first half spoke of TDR. I am very skeptical about the same. I will keep that aside. But what he said was that private forest in Canacona would remain a forest and those rights could be used elsewhere. Now if that sort of planning is thought about, then I feel that these ODPs must go and it has to be one regional plan. If the whole concept of TDR is there, then there is no point in this.

Herald: Regional plan should be Goa's regional plan.

Adv Cleofat Coutinho: Yes, it cannot have separate ODPs. It will have to be regional plan first.

Prashant: One thing I feel that the process undertaken by the government during the five years, too much of openness is also bad at times. We went to all the panchayats. Now, I am telling you in the village panchayat Loliem, maximum people came out to detonify forest, detonify orchid, denotify agriculture. So when you are extra open to people, people want everything. We have about 70% cover of agriculture. Now, they want to bring it down to 30%. People want it.

Herald: Is it really the people’s voice or is it the voice of certain vested interests in that village?

Prashant Naik: Ultimately, what do you, you also go to a gram sabha. How do you know whose gramsabha it is? You have to listen to what the people say in a gramsabha. If you dont listen to them, the media will report that we aren't listening to the people. That’s why I am saying, at times too much of openness in any area, I do not know what happened about Valpoi, because these are the regional plans that they say taluka-wise they are ready. But I know for sure in my village panchayat this is what has happened.

Herald:What is your suggestion? According to you what is your solution?

Prashant: We cannot allow this much of openness. We have to have our greenery intact. We have to have our agriculture intact. We have to have our orchids intact and the forest too. But how much of it should be there, Prashant Naik cannot be the authority. I think we require some expert to decide on this. What was done earlier, the experts would decide the same on Ground Zero. 

Narendra Sawaikar: What Ramesh Gawas has said that Goa has an area of 3702 sq. kms. Our land mass is limited and therefore while you mention that this was in your party manifesto but while doing this, many factors need to be considered. Our Goa is small and therefore in such situations we need to take all and visualize the same. At times what happens is that you may feel that there is some vested interest. Not necessary that there has to be vested interest. When you have a meeting in the panchayat, we have to listen to what the people are also saying and on those basis things will move ahead. 

Herald: Rajendra Kerkarbab, as an environmentalist just put forward your suggestions. We know what has happened but what is the way forward? Let this be constructive.

Rajendra: Now there was a discussion on private forest. We have about 200 sq mts private forests in Goa. But presently the process to identify private forests in the rest  of Goa is on. We also don’t have the incentive to be given to the private forest area like Salvador De Munde, Succor areas there are pristine areas of the forest. If we fail to protect these forests, whatever little fresh air we are still getting will stop. If we go on increasing housing there, it will be a big problem. All these will destroy and we should formulate the forest policy and also provide incentive just as TDR has been declared.

Herald:So has the time come to now basically denotify or scrap the RP 2021 which is there as unless you denotify you cannot give birth to a new plan, because this plan is still in existence, RP 2021 is still alive, it is not a dead plan yet. So, I think hasn’t the time come now to bite the bullet, denotify the entire plan and start the process again but at the same time keeping in mind the two Eco 1 and Eco2 zones. Take the whole plan, decide on the way forward, involve the people and have through people’s participation.

Adv Cleofat Coutinho: Prashant Naik says people’s participation is also bad.

Prashant Naik: I said with example and you prove me wrong. I gave you entire example and you proved me wrong. I have just made a point.

Adv Cleofat Coutinho: He says people want settlement.

Herald: But see at the end of the day, my point is that people's views need to be filtered and taken scientifically. There is a process to it. 

Prashant Naik: Precisely.

Narendra Sawaikar: That’s where Prashant Naik wants to make a point, he says that you have to attend a gram sabha. In the gram sabha you have both the views. So one hand you have the views of people who say that no you do it this way and that way and again there are people who raise their voice and disagree. So in this kind of a situation we have to take everybody into confidence and sometimes you need assistance of the experts also.

Adv Cleofat Coutinho: From what Prashant Naik is saying, opening from pandora's box on Eco 1 and Eco 2 would not help us at all. So I would say, the point which I was making was that this has to be frozen or we may have to be taken up seriously.

Nitin Kunkolienkar: First and foremost in 2006, revocation of the regional plan was a blunder. That was the first mistake that has been done. You should have corrected part of the things there and notified first. You have even inserted Section 17 and created a power for the government to retrospect. So, if you had the power to withdraw a bad plan, so you also have a power to recover a good plan. That was the blunder done by the government. Thereafter, this process started of making a new plan. The plan is a must for a state like Goa. It has to have continuity. You should have a foolproof plan. We need a plan because Section 15 says development has to be in accordance with a plan. Now, you link it to the conversion and other processes of the government. There is no clarity on the private forest as Rajendra Kerkarbab has mentioned. Forest areas are still being cleared. It's a total mess. That’s a failure of governance on part of this particular system. Then you look at other Eco1 and Eco2 and no one knows whether Eco1 exists or not. You look at what is happening in the coastal areas, I think the government needs to come up immediately with a plan. So, 2021 plan which was there ideally should have been in place. It’s a choice and prerogative of the government. The government in power feels things which has happened wrong definitely the government has the power to exclude those things. They can partially be accepted, I mean the critical areas and the entire plan cannot be kept in this position.

Herald:The harsh reality is probably the only state, which does not have a plan for the last 17 years. From 2001 to 2017, we have not been a part of any planning process and the issue is how do we correct it? From all that you heard from all of us, what according to you is a way forward?

A) Do we need a plan as soon as possible? My point is that there is no need of calling the plan 2021 because we will be lying to ourselves if we call it 2021.

B) So my issue is how do you draw a road map for the RP? 

C) From what you heard about all of us, what is your take away and what you recommend the government if you were in this position?

Narendra Sawaikar: There should be a plan. In 2007, the plan came into force, there were issues which were raised later on. So thereafter, those issues needed to be answered and addressed by the people and by the government also. So, therefore there was no people's participation. That was one of the contentions. So, now that we have started the process, now we are in 2017 and it's for the current government to take a call. As far as I am concerned, we should have a plan in place and I am quite sure and confident that this plan will definitely happen.

Ramesh Gawas: When in the Supreme Court, the Advocate General says that there are problems due to CRZ on one side and eco-sensitive zone on the other side and pleads where do we do the rest of our activities? And obviously, when the AG speaks he is the voice of the government. Therefore, we need to know what is in the mind of the government. There is total chaos and mess.

Narendra Sawaikar: It is a reality that the Western Ghats is on one side and other side is the CRZ and in between we are placed and what is the landmass in the present circumstances? It is as less as 37 per cent.

Ramesh Gawas: Narendrabab, the problem is that everything is dominated by mining lobby. Because the mining lobby does not want it, the questions of availability of land comes up. Where will be land left for mining? Because of these contentions, even in your plan, mining should be phased out periodically, it was stated. Instead, the buffer zone has gone. There were Supreme Court affidavits galore. In  the whole scheme of things, the common man suffers.

Girish Chodankar: I just want to clarify one point, Narendra Sawaikarbab made, the RP 2021 which was prepared by expert task force committee, it was  done in consultation with all the village panchayats. It was a very long exercise that was carried out and I do not know what the reason was that their government found and they just went ahead?

Narendra Sawaikar: If you want to go back to history, then you should look at why people were so agitated if there was so much participation and consultation.

Adv Cleofat Coutinho: But Girish, it was not the last government, even the previous government did not notify fully. Then this problem would have not come in the last 5 years.

Sujay Gupta: I feel that the political class itself has not handled it properly and let the people down across the party lines.