HERALD: Hello and welcome to a very important debate on HCN and Herald. This debate essentially is on the land which is required for the Dabolim airport and for its various purposes. The search for land has been a very ancient human struggle. It continues in Goa, and for an airport which South Goa wants to protect and preserve against the onslaught of the MOPA airport that is coming up on us. There are two crucial aspects of the land issue in Dabolim. This debate has also been sparked off by the Defence Minister’s recent promise of giving
parcels of defence land in Panjim to ensure that parking spaces are cleared up. But, having said that, there is a larger issue of parking in Dabolim, which is extremely critical. There are two aspects to it: one is land which is needed for parking – land
which was ostensibly lost when a big parcel of land was denotified to one Bernard Costa. That was an
8×1 survey number which was done in controversial
circumstances. The other issue is also the expansion
of the airport itself for various facilities.
You know, the thing is, the airport needs to be expanded,
there are other ancillary activities that
need to be done, and these things need to be sorted
out.
SUJAY GUPTA: I’ll start with Mr J Pereira. At this
point of time, according to you, what is the most
critical need: land for parking or land for expansion,
and why?
PEREIRA: I think if you see the present situation, especially
during the afternoon when many flights arrive,
you can see there is a very big issue of parking.
Second, there is a possibility of major accidents
happening at the airport. So the priority at
the moment should definitely be for parking.
SG: Coming straight to the parking issue, everybody
knows of the denotification of the 8/1, which
took a large parcel of land away. At that point of
time, the government of the day had said there was
land right next to the airport. Now, what has happened
after that, according to you?
PEREIRA: The land was given back to Bernard Costa
in Survey number 8/1
SG: That we know.
PEREIRA: Secondly, the airport authority of India
had requested the Government of Goa on why
their letter dated 14th July 2014, that is the only
8/1, was the only available contiguous land where
they can use it for various purposes like fuel farm,
cargo backup, and parking. That letter is with me
here, and it very clearly states that there was also
an advance paid by the Airport Authority of India to
the tune of 4.250 crores for this land under Survey
number 8/1 part and number 9/1. Since this requirement
was there, they have requested the Government
of Goa to once again renotify that 30,000
square metres of land that was required.
MAUVIN GODINHO: The decision to de-notify the
land, did not originate from me. It originated from
the then-revenue minister and in the government. I
was part of the ruling dispensation being the
deputy speaker and the local MLA. Having said that,
I don’t say what decision they have taken is wrong.
I stand by the arguments that were advanced at
that point of time also that there was available land
at that point of time, which is also available today.
It is more than 56,000 square metres, or 58 thousand
square metres to be exact, which the navy is
wrongly claiming to be theirs. That land is available,
which the Navy is claiming is theirs. The government
of the day can take a call and see that this
issue is resolved. And now with the Defence Minister
at the helm of affairs, who is a Goan and who is
very much interested in the interest of Goa, this
can be resolved at the earliest.
SG: Do you admit that the Congress government
and then the BJP government for the last three
years have failed to get this land back.
GODINHO: Yes. The Congress government hardly
took any interest. Even now I don’t see any interest
being taken in this direction. But it is not that nothing
is being done. The serious problem right now is
parking as it is rightly being pointed out. But, the
most important thing right now for parking or for
congestion to be eased at the airport outside is a
great separator, which is nothing but an elevated
flyover. It is being built there where the government
is spending around 41 crores, which ultimately
I fought and I got the work going. So that
will be a reality in the next six months.
SG: If we accept this argument that this land is being
claimed by the Navy wrongly, doesn’t it now
fall upon the honourable Defence Minister, who
comes to Goa almost every third day, to spend
some time there and get this done?
GODINHO: I think this issue is being taken up, and
you will see it resolved very shortly. I feel it’s only
that there is some effort lacking on the part of the
local government to push it through whenever he
comes. Had it been pushed through with that
much of enthusiasm and zeal, which is actually required,
by now it would have been done.
KAKODKAR: (on the isuse of denotification of the
land of survey 8/1 and identification of alternate
land) The strangest part of all this is that a letter
was given by revenue department to the PDA in the
evening, and the next morning, by 11 o’clock, the
letter comes that there is separate land available. It
has never happened that a the letter is sent askingfo
alternate land is available and the reply comes
the next day morning just before the meeting of
that land is available
SG: But as far as the land is concerned…
Godinho Obviously the reply has to be given by the
next day. And I remember that time the member
secretary did give a reply with documentary evidence
on how the land does not belong to the
Navy
KAKODKAR: Priority was not taken rightly. Airport
parking has more priority than that land to be given
to a private person. So, unless that alternate land
was acquired, this should not have been spared
with. This was second.
GODINHO: There is a larger principle involved
here, which I stand by. I stood by it at that time that
land is a precious commodity, it is a scarce commodity.
For a small place like Goa, even a small
piece of land matters. We are continuously dispossessing
our locals of land and giving it to central
agencies. If you look at Vasco, most of our land is
gone, whether it is to defence or other central government
agencies. On the one side, we fight that
the rights of the locals have to be protected, we are
being dispossessed, we are becoming landless. On
the other side, if there is a case where the government
acts and returns land when alternate land is
available, still it becomes a huge issue, which I
don’t think is correct.
PEREIRA: My point here is the land was returned to
Bernard Costa because he is the son of the soil,
and he was supposed to use it for his purpose, and
not to sell it for a construction project. That’s the
issue. If it can be sold for a construction project,
then it can be given for the airport also.
GODINHO: What makes you believe if he has given
it to a construction project, that he has no interest
in that and he does not have a large share in that?
As the owner of the land, obviously he will have a
large share in that. As a Goan, he is entitled to own
large spots of land or large part parts of the building.
What’s wrong in this?
SG: I don’t want this debate to be only about
Bernard Costa. I’ll move on. I’ll make just one passing
reference. The issue is that if you look at the
reasoning given, it’s said that this person needs the
land for his own dwelling and own housing. That
was the reason given, that he doesn’t have land, he
needs it for his own purpose. So that was the
whole issue. We won’t get into that.
KAKODKAR: One point which we have missed is
that alternate land should have first been acquired
and then this returned. That’s the biggest mistake.
SG: …but the very fact that in two-years time or
two-and-a-half-years time we have not been able
to get that land, then there is a failure somewhere.
My issue is that if that land was readily available,
why was it not being given? Or why is it not being
taken? Now I’ll go to the next point. As far as this
land is concerned, we’ve debated on the parking
land. I’ll now start with Rajendra on the land that is
now required by the AAI for its expansion, because
right now the airport is expanding. You can go to
that magic figure of 15 million if you just utilize this
land. And if you utilize this land and go to that
magic figure, the whole justification for Mopa
goes. Can you tell us a little bit about this?
KAKODKAR: The airport requires three facilities.
One is a terminal, other is parking for aircrafts, and
the third is a runway. At the moment, the terminal
has a capacity of more than nine million. About
parking, there is a problem. Parking of aircrafts. So,
additional land which is available at the side of the
present terminal, which is in the possession of the
Navy but which is free land. It cannot be utilised by
the Navy also because the other facilities are on
the west side. This is on east side. That is a 15.5
acres of land, which the Airport Authority had already
sent a letter three or four years back when
Defence Minister Anthony had come here. He had
said that this would be given to the airport authority.
After that nothing has happened. The government
has changed; nothing has happened. And another
thing that is required is that if land is available,
the terminal as well as parking facility can go
to 15 million passengers. Then we have got the
runway. For the runway what we require is parallel
taxiway. Parallel taxiway is already planned by the
Indian Navy because they also require it. There was
a cost figure of some 150 crores, which Airport Authority
has agreed to share half. 75 crores of that.
That also has to be expedited.
HERALD: So what is the solution?
GODINHO: No, let me say, and here we are talking
of the Navy releasing more land than what was already
committed. The only silver lining is today we
have our very own Defense Minister, and he should
take a very serious initiative and see that not only
committed land prior to this NDA government
coming to power at the centre, prior commitments
made during the UPA time should be honoured. I
think, as you rightly said, he is making efforts even
to release land in the heart of the capital city of
Panjim to ease the parking. You’ll see the results in
time to come. That is what my knowledge is
SG: It is the same defence minister who told
Digambar Kamat “Aren’t we Indians? Can’t our land
be given to us?”
Pereira: Yes, yes. Absolutely correct. Absolutely. As
Mr Mauvin rightfully said, somebody has to push it,
and it is the Goa government who has to push this
with the Defence Minster.
SG: Before I end, I have another point to make. I’m
saying that at the end of the day people’s movements
and people’s uprisings count for something.
Don’t you feel that as far as this whole issue of
Dabolim is concerned – this land and so on and so
forth – don’t you feel that the people’s movement
needs to be much, much stronger? This issue
needs to be raised much, much more?
PEREIRA: No. First and foremost, I would like to
point out the government should have priorities.
The priority today is not MOPA. The priority is the
bridge on the River Zuari, because if that collapses,
first and foremost there will be a North and
South divide. Okay? That should be one of the
priorities. Regional plan is also another priority.
My personal suggestion would be, okay, you have
acquired land in MOPA, freeze it, the same way
you have frozen from the centre of the road 40
metres on either side of the road. Freeze that. And
if there is a requirement, let the future generation
decide about it. In the meantime, the farmers who
are protesting can use that land.
HARALD: Mauvin, as a responsible local MLA,
what is the way forward and what are you going
to do for this?
GODINHO: My foremost responsibility, of which
I’m very much aware and carry on my shoulders,
is to see that Dabolim remains forever. There have
been talks that Dabolim will be closed, this will
happen, that will happen. I have said before and I
say now nobody in power here or at the centre
can ever think of closing Dabolim Airport. Having
said that, I have always maintained that Mopa
should be left to market forces. Market forces
means that it should be a commercially viable
project, there should be investors, there should
be that much of traffic. Here we are talking of expansion,
solving parking problems; I think is these
problems are solved, for the next two decades or
so we may not need Mopa. Which simply means
other commercial factors will come into play. First
things first, as you said and as rightly pointed out
by Phillip, we need the Zuari Bridge first, much
before MOPA. Yes, it is being done. December 19,
I think the honourable defence minister has made
a commitment. The foundation stone will be laid.
1,000 crores Zuari bridge is coming up, connecting
the North with the South. Along with that, another
4,000 crores were announced in terms of
other infrastructure works for other bridges. Things
are happening. The problem with is us that expectations
are too high and we want it too fast. Unfortunately
for the BJP, they do not have a communicator
who communicates “these things happen,
this is going to happen.” There is some mismatch or
there is a disconnect, and that is what is affecting,
and it is not going to the people and that’s the
problem.
HERALD: Mr Kakodkar, your closing arguments.
Kakodkar: A very strange thing which I observed:
after the BJP came into power in the last ten
months, Alina Saldhana has become mum on the
Dabolim issue and the land. I think she’s not doing
anything. In fact, prior to the election, she has
been saying in every meeting that in Dabolim more
land has to be given for the airport
SG: Since we’re running out of town, I’ll just wrap
this up. We’ve had an entertaining and a very informative
debate. What is important is that all of
us, irrespective of our political affiliations and
which side of the court we are in, have to stand
together to ensure that Dabolim is saved. We need
to get land for Dabolim’s parking, which we still
believe the whole parking issue has been completely
jeopardised by certain decisions that were
taken, the most important of it being that alternate
land was not properly secured before land was
given away.
GODINHO: I would like to say one last thing. Instead
of making it Dabolim versus Mopa, if people
demand more that this parking problem should be
solved, get that land which is available, get additional
space for you parallel runway or taxiway, and
give more land to airport authority, things will automatically
settle. This confusion of Mopa and
Dabolim will automatically die down. That is what
should happen.
HERALD: Thank you, thank you.
panjim, sunDaY, april 26, 2015 debate 3
“The decision to de-notify the
land, did not originate from
me. It originated from the thenrevenue
minister and in the
government. I was part of the
ruling dispensation being the
deputy speaker and the local
MLA. Having said that, I don’t
say what decision they have
taken is wrong. I stand by the
arguments that were advanced
at that point of time also that
there was available land at
that point of time, which is also
available today. It is more than
56,000 square metres, or 58
thousand square metres to be
exact, which the navy is
wrongly claiming to be theirs. ”
—Mauvin Godinho, Dabolim MLA
“The airport requires three
facilities. One is a terminal,
other is parking for aircrafts,
and the third is a runway. At
the moment, the terminal has
a capacity of more than nine
million. About parking, there
is a problem. Parking of
aircrafts. So, additional land
which is available at the side
of the present terminal,
which is in the possession of
the Navy but which is free
land.”
—Rajendra Kakodkar, Activist
“ I would like to point out the
government should have
priorities. The priority today
is not MOPA. The priority is
the bridge on the River Zuari,
because if that collapses, first
and foremost there will be a
North and South divide. That
should be one of the
priorities. Regional plan is
also another priority. My
personal suggestion would be,
okay, you have acquired land
in MOPA, freeze it. ”
—Joao Philip Pereira, Petitioner
fighting for land for Dabolim
parking
