Herald: Last time it seemed the AAP was in a hurry and the aggression was much more. This time it seems more planned and strategic.
Manish Sisodia Dy CM Delhi: Experience counts. Now we have an experience of six years in Delhi. That energy is seen in Goa. Ultimately the party is formed by people from society. That wasn’t the case earlier to this extent.
H: So what’s the key difference between AAP in 2017 and now?
MS: Last time around people, used to wonder if a new party would work. But now, we are all over the country- Surat, Punjab and so on. And as we are getting ground-level successes in those areas, the confidence of the people is also increasing.
H: You seem to be open to welcoming people from other parties, including the BJP and the Congress.
MS: It’s not that everyone in the Congress or the BJP is bad. People in the Congress are also thinking that AAP is a fair party and there’s teamwork. Even in opposition, we have performed. A minister in Punjab had to resign on the issue of corruption, because of our pressure.
See, even in the BJP there are different kinds of people who feel that. A section is not happy if divisiveness is the main strategy of the party. There is disenchantment at the lower level in the BJP and people are breaking from them at the national level or at the Goa level
H: You actually think so?
MS: (emphatically in Hindi) Bilkul (for sure). I can’t say for sure at the national level because that hasn’t been put to test yet but Goa is coming to the test. It is visible in Goa. Those who align themselves with the BJP with the hope that the party will do something are unhappy. They feel cheated. They want health, education and some economic security. Many join expecting certain things and work to work. Then they realise that leadership has a different dimension altogether. wo log mauke ke talash mein hote hain (they look for other opportunities). They don’t get that at their party so they come.
Also, we don’t break. In the last few years, they tried to break our MLAs too but not a single MLA left the party. People see these outcomes. The confidence of people from different sectors (to be volunteers or supporters of AAP) is increasing. So in Goa people now believe that the AAP team in Goa and Delhi can be trusted three to four years ago, we didn’t have this much to tell.
H: Recently AAP made an interesting decision by allowing the head of the Mahila Congress to join AAP. Isn’t this a deviation from AAPs policy of grooming new fresh faces and making them grow within the party? What led to such a decision which didn’t seem to add up?
MS: Every person has a journey…. in Journalism or in politics. There is a threshold of course. On issues of corruption and clean politics… (there is no compromise) . We also have a 26-year-old plumber (who won a Zila Panchayat seat backed by AAP) who won the elections. These are all fellow countrymen and women. If their records are fine and there is intent .. there’s no problem. We are not a party that gives favours or makes money. If people are seeing these values and wanting to come, we should welcome them with open arms.
H: There is talk of the need for the opposition to unite against the BJP.
MS: The opposition is united with the BJP. Where is the opposition?
H: What mistakes did AAP make last time? Why did AAP not succeed in 2017?
MS: As I said people had a doubt. They wondered how far we would go. They have now seen us. And we have and will get maturity over a period of time.
H: Coming to your strategy, it seemed that the AAP was looking at the minority vote bank very carefully and felt that it would be a quick replacement to the Congress and anti-BJP forces. You perhaps calculated that if you get Salcete and the minority vote outside it, half your battle would be won. This also probably led to the choice of Elvis Gomes as your leader in Goa. Did this focus work adversely in other parts of the State?
MS: I don’t think so. Our entire foundation is based on inclusiveness. All communities are important. There are constituency-wise divisions in Delhi also but didn’t give certain seats priority over others. Our basic paradigm is that a voter should rise above caste creed and religion.
H: The elephant in the room which is not addressed in Goa is the economy. There are no clear revenue streams. Mining operations have not been regulated and mired in litigations—for the right reasons of course. Does AAP have an economic revival plan?
MS: What is Goa’s biggest asset? Tourism. That is Goa’s asset. Somehow due to corrupt politics, the potential hasn’t been utilized. Major countries have a capital and a tourism capital. We are not working in this direction anywhere in India. We haven’t made tourism capitals. Goa has that potential. Goa has never had any civic unrest. That is the foundation. Then MSME’s can be developed.
H: Let’s look at some of the major agitations that are taking place against the movement of coal and the projects connected to it like the double-tracking of the South Western Railway tracks. Does AAP feel that these agitations have a pan Goa pull or not?
MS: Goa is a society that believes in discussions and debates. And that is Goa’s hallmark. Solutions are found through discussions. There will be contradictions. Before going into the merit or demerit, discuss with people. Through discussions, even the main player (the government for instance) may realise that the decision is not in the interests of the people. If you discuss, the government should be either ready to change the mind of the people or change itself (its policies). If you connect with the people you take the right decisions. If you sit inside closed rooms and make policies, then only your strategists and data analysts will understand, not the people.
H: Your team has been working on the ground this time around. What kind of a response are you getting?
MS: (at the restaurant, where this interview is being conducted, there is a constant flow of people shaking hands with him and telling him “we’ll bring you back” and so on”) People are coming up to us in100% local places like this and telling us of their genuine expectation from us. This is a change. These are not touristy places. We did a meeting in Panjim and because of COVID restrictions limited it to 100 volunteers. We also connected through video to other places in Goa where there were 100 volunteers in each. This is the real Goan response. This is unprecedented. We now have 4000 volunteers giving their time to AAP. These are selfless people. All they tell us is ‘Do what you have done in Delhi’. This is what we saw in Delhi in 2013. Delhi was exactly like this
H: In the last elections, we observed that many who would have voted for AAP, hesitated because they were not confident others were voting too.
MS: Yes there is a big difference between then and now. Now there is confidence
H: So do we take it that AAP will contest all 40 seats.
MS: Definitely. We are contesting all 40 seats. We did our first karyakarta sammelan after the Zilla Parishad elections. We have 4000 volunteers. Our target is 10,000. And the hope that some people came and expressed in this restaurant while I was speaking to you has to spread. Last time those who got the anti BJP vote, sold that mandate. People don’t forget.
H: Last time you had declared a CM candidate. Will you do so?
MS: Yes surely. When the time comes. We haven’t decided as yet. It’s a face that will be trusted. A face that doesn’t have a legacy of doing nonsense. People see me sitting in a restaurant. The people of Goa want a CM who can be approachable and who they can talk to as their own and expect that he will deliver that way AAP is doing in Delhi. Ordinary faces become extraordinary in this kind of politics.
H: Finally, the administration has to be run by the bureaucracy. There is corruption at all levels in many departments. How do you clean up the administration?
MS: It needs political will. In every department, there are good people who are sidelined by a corrupt ruling party. When we come to power, the good honest people will get key roles.
